Tuesday, June 09, 2015

Reason Subpoena debacle. A place for discussion.

A quick note regarding the Reason subpoena issue, I'd like to post something here with some initial thoughts, and any Reason regulars (or irregulars) who would like to discuss this are more than welcome to discuss this here, as Reason has sadly made it clear that they don't want it discussed on their site.  More than likely because they fear further repercussions from an all-powerful state.

Some random thoughts, because I haven't had time to put them into a better more coherent post:


  • Disappointed that Nick Gillespie hasn't made any official announcement of the Subpoena, because I've read the actual Subpoena, and it doesn't say they can't notify anyone, just that it's requested they don't.
  • The Subpoena demands all identifying information on six commenters:  Agammamon, cloudbuster, Rhywun, Alan, Croaker and Product Placement.  Subpoena here:  http://popehat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Revised-Grand-Jury-Subpoena.pdf
  • Some of those users I know and talk with (on the forum) regularly, others I'm not as familiar with, but that doesn't mean they're not long-time commenters-- but I suspect they're much newer as I've been on Reason for over a decade.
  • Several of the comments, particularly those made by Rhywun and Product Placement were not threatening at all, not even with the most liberal stretch of the meaning.  Why does the government demand the identities of those two commenters?
  • Given the number of ridiculous and inflammatory things said on the internet every pico second, why do WE, the United States of America have to act like the goddamned Taliban when someone makes a blasphemous comment about a 'revered' figurehead?
Having listed out those thoughts, there are plenty more here, and I'd be honored if anyone from the Reason site were to engage discussion here, as discussion on Reason itself has been greatly chilled, even by the relative light-hand moderation that's been occurring there.


67 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ow, my eyes!
Dude, it's not 2003.
YOU'RE a towel!!

x4rqcks3f v2.0 said...

Has the discussion been chilled because of Nick's request or because people are afraid of getting the H&R six in further trouble? It's the latter for me.

Slammer said...

Paul thanks for takimg the time to do this. The story is taking off nationally now, Im confident the situation will improve when powerful 1st amend lawyers get involved. Im comcerned about finding a commentariat if/when H&R gets moderated and/or shut down. Any ideas?

Anonymous said...

Pretty sure the Reason staff is under direction of some legal help and what they can say is probably limited. And I'd guess that's the same with the Reason Six.
Agamamom supposedly has a funding site; anyone got a link? Other than that, I'm not sure what any of us can do.

Anonymous said...

BTW, Hot Air is full of it:

"When we look a bit deeper into the details of the case, however, the outrage might be just a tad premature."
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/10/justice-dept-subpoenas-reason-magazine-to-find-anonymous-commenters-internet-implodes/

Yes, according to Jazz Shaw, those comments might be fair game for the DOJ!
I knew practically nothing about Hot Air; now I know it's a statist waste of bandwidth.

Anonymous said...

So did Reason give up the personal information of "The Hit & Run Six" or not? Don't they (and everyone who comments there and supports free-minds libertarianism) have a right to know if their privacy has been compromised? The silent treatment from Reason betrays our trust in them and is frankly inexcusable. By keeping mum (the subpoena requested, not demanded silence) while "requesting" nobody talks about it on their site (fat chance) is cowardly and hypocritical. The Reason Foundation's financial supporters have a right to know if Reason has a) put its money where its mouth is, or b) named names. And if they have named names, their own name will be "Mud." The truth will come out, and they should come clean now while they still have a chance.

Paul said...

Hard to say. I would hope that their lawyers would fight such a request. If it ever comes out that they didn't fight the request, I'll be very, very disappointed in Reason. Sure, they could lose... but at least put up a fight.

I'm seriously concerned about the repercussions of this. Especially considering they wanted personal identifying information from comments which were in no way threatening to the judge.

Anonymous said...

I didn't get that email, Paul.

Wood Chipper 5000 said...

Ed Morrissey at Hot Air has a much better, truer take on the H&R 6:

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/10/another-view-subpoenaing-reason-over-comments-is-affront-to-free-speech/

J.R. Ireland said...

The Hot Air commenters obliterated Jazz Shaw for that post though. Normally I'm not a fan of the people who comment at Hot Air, but watching them tear Jazz apart was very satisfying.

He's going to need to buy 7 or 8 more fedoras so that he can use the fabric to staunch the bleeding.

Playa Manhattan said...

Reason retained outside counsel the moment they received the subpoena. This is a different law firm than the one that they use for regular matters. Their lawyers have told them NOT to comment. Period. They also notified the commenters that their information was being subpoenaed.

Reason is doing the right thing, and we'll know about it soon enough.

Anonymous said...

Thx, Playa

Anonymous said...

Reason is doing the right thing, and we'll know about it soon enough.

Thanks, Hillary.

Anonymous said...

Welp, I'm guessing Gillespie has named names, otherwise he'd be trumpeting his defiance to The Man in every other Hit & Run post. Not that I blame him. It's a smart strategy. Most of Reason's commenters have the attention span of a lab mouse on a coke bender, so all will be forgotten by next week. And eventually, when the DOJ drops the case, Gillespie et al will pump their fists and claim victory over The Man. YEAH, WE SHOWED THOSE JACKBOOTED THUGS!! 7:01! NEVER FORGET!!!

J.R. Ireland said...

Except for the fact that he may very well be getting legal advice that they should keep their mouths shut until this is dealt with, which is the legal advice I'd be giving someone in this situation.

If any evidence for your assertions beyond base conjecture, let's hear it.

Anonymous said...

"If any evidence for your assertions beyond base conjecture, let's hear it."

While we're at it, let's hear yours.

"He may very well be getting legal advice that they should keep their mouths shut"

If any evidence for your assertions beyond base conjecture, let's hear it.



Anonymous said...

And since when does "legal advice" (weasel words) trump integrity? When the shit hits the fan?

Playa Manhattan said...

Let me put this more clearly. Reason has directly been told by counsel not to discuss the matter. At all. Reason is not the target of this investigation, the named commenters are, and yet they've retained counsel. Why do you think that is?

Anonymous said...

Playa -- are you speaking for Reason in an official capacity? Or is all this mere conjecture on your part? And why should anyone rely on your interpretation of events when Reason could end all the speculation by simply making a statement? Reason is becoming more Hillary-like by the second. That's not a good thing.

Anonymous said...

"Welp, I'm guessing Gillespie has named names, otherwise he'd be trumpeting his defiance to The Man in every other Hit & Run post"

I'll take your guess as not worth much, since you based it on a non-sequitur.
Somebody over on the Bloomberg site claimed REASON HAS NAMED NAMES, and in support linked the home page of H&R; great evidence.
When someone has information, I'd very much like to hear it. Guesses, not so much.

Anonymous said...

"And since when does "legal advice" (weasel words) trump integrity? When the shit hits the fan?"

Internet tuff gai here, I see.
It trumps stupidity; you got any evidence that integrity is at risk?

Anonymous said...

All I'm asking is that Reason makes an official statement to its readers and supporters. Remaining silent is cowardly, given Reason's "tuff gai" reputation for mocking government at every opportunity, and mercilessly deriding those who kowtow to government threats. When government hits back, Reason goes into the fetal position and sucks its thumb? Not very inspiring, but not everyone can have the courage of his convictions.

Anonymous said...

"Their lawyers have told them NOT to comment."

How the fuck do YOU know, "Playa"? Show your work or STFU. And why should anyone believe YOU when Reason could end all speculation by making a simple statement on their site? Ooooh, "Our lawyers told us not to say anything." Fucking weasels. Reason at this point is deserving of nothing but contempt for throwing its commenters under the bus and taking the Fifth when asked about it.

Anonymous said...

"How the fuck do YOU know, "Playa"? Show your work or STFU"
Pretty sure it was Playa who coined the phrase 'reputational economy'; his word has high value as a result of the rep he's earned over the years.

"Reason at this point is deserving of nothing but contempt for throwing its commenters under the bus and taking the Fifth when asked about it."
You have no rep; your claim is NWS.

Anonymous said...

Show your work, "Playa." Your "reputation" doesn't mean shit to me. And if Reason is farming out its PR to anonymous poseurs, they're in deeper doo-doo than I thought.

Anonymous said...

In fairness, I looked for "Playa Manhattan" on Reason.com's staff page. Couldn't find him. So I went to the Reason Foundation site (reason.org) and searched Reason Foundation Experts under "P." Still no "Playa Manhattan." What's up with that? Why is this anonymous troll presuming to speak for Reason? Because he has a "reputation" among his fellow anonymous trolls? Not buying it. Reason is stonewalling its readers and supporters, and I DEMAND an explanation, or...or...IT'S THE WOOD CHIPPER FOR GILLESPIE!

Fd'A said...

Reason declined to comment for this post, as advised by its legal counsel.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/06/10/413462238/reason-the-libertarian-mag-target-of-federal-subpoena

Fd'A said...

Didn't take Mary long, did it?

G+ said...

"" Anonymous Fd'A said...

Didn't take Mary long, did it?""

Police say that they often catch Arsonists because they just have to see their targets burn, and revisit to the scene repeatedly afterwards to admire their work

G+ said...

per your remark, Frankie - i'm pretty sure this event occurred because someone had a vendetta.

the usual suspects - Tulpa/Bo, Mary, both have that kind of M.O.

i'm fairly sure the states attorney doesn't *actually* think Reason commenters are secret killers for the Dark Web drug-mob in their spare time, and brag about it in public forums



Anonymous said...

Hey guys, here's my take on what's going on.

First off, let's note that no court has evaluated the subpoena. The court clerk signed off on it and the AUSA filled in what he wanted. This is one person's determination.

Under the federal rules of criminal procedure, the grounds for opposing a grand jury subpoena are: unreasonable and oppressive. These are evaluated on specificity and relevance. It's unlikely that the production of the records are vague or irrelevant. The request was specific to certain pieces of information of six users. The goal was to identify the targets, which is directly related to the charge. They may be able to argue that the usernames could be changed at any time for an account, and so wouldn't be helpful. I don't know what records Reason keeps, though, and what information could be obtained from them.

Constitutional arguments probably won't be successful either. Reason can't invoke the first or fifth amendment for a third party. They themselves are "witnesses", as opposed to "targets", of the subpoena, so they can't invoke those amendments for themselves. They may try to claim that disclosure would create a "chilling effect", but that's unlikely to trump the government's substantial interest in investigating these matters.

What they'll most likely do is attempt to quash the subpoena as a bad faith act of the grand jury power. Grand juries brought in bad faith can't be used to harass members of the press. Reason published an article critical of the judge and her decision. Shortly after publishing the article, the subpoena was issued from the US attorney in the district of the judge. In combination with the First Amendment, this may be argued as harassment to create a chilling effect on criticism, especially if the expectation is for Reason to begin self-censoring. I think it helps that Rhywun's comment was included, which is in no way a threat, as it illustrates the ridiculousness of the charge. So while Reason probably can't win on First Amendment grounds alone, it may be able to show bad faith and harassment meant to induce self-censoring of First Amendment rights.

I think that Reason is probably taking a pretty big burden on themselves right now to fight this. They probably can't quash the subpoena, but my hope is that they made a practice of getting rid of records for IP addresses, account changes, and usernames. Their policy of allowing email accounts to change usernames may make it difficult to say with any certainty who the users actually were, but maybe these are commonly held records, I don't know. I don't know what to make of Nick's request.

That's what I think, anyway, as an attorney speculating far outside his corporate practice area.

Anonymous said...

One last thing: Popehat is the man for opening this up, and for getting the first word in on how ridiculous this all is. He's linked to in every piece; you can't read about this without hearing his unconditional destruction of this subpoena. He's completely guided the narrative on this one, and thank goodness.

Make no mistake - the AUSA who brought this case is an unhappy little bitch right now. His boss probably rubber stamped the subpoena without so much as glancing at the rider attached to it. That's why he's defensive and suspicious. He just tried turning a phrase my grandma mutters at the TV into a threat and now his only defenders are illiterates like Jazz Shaw. Not even NPR will call these comments "threats".

Wood Chipper 5000 said...

Postrel speaks!

Reason Magazine Subpoena Stomps on Free Speech

"This [i.e., government harassment of a respected journalism site that dissents from its policies] is happening in America -- weirdly, to a site I founded, and one whose commenters often earned my public contempt."

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-06-09/reason-magazine-subpoena-stomps-on-free-speech

Wood Chipper 5000 said...

Looks like Judge Forrest was the subject of internet threats back in the fall of last year.

ROSS ULBRICHT SILK ROAD TRIAL JUDGE FACING DEATH THREATS ON DARK NET

Dissatisfied with the judge’s rejection of the arguments put forward by Ulbricht’s defense, who argued that the FBI unlawfully penetrated into Silk Road servers, Darknet users have taken the initiative to create an underground web page in the form of a Wiki, dedicated to the New York judge. The Wiki’s visitors are openly encouraged by its anonymous creator to contribute by editing it with details related to the judge and her relatives, a process also known as “doxing:”

This collection of information was quickly followed by calls for elevated harrassment, like the swatting technique that involves a hoax phone-in tip to send SWAT police forces to one’s home under false pretenses.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ross-ulbricht-silk-road-trial-judge-facing-death-threats-dark-net/

Anonymous said...

"my hope is that they made a practice of getting rid of records for IP addresses, account changes, and usernames"

Reason bans undesirable commenters based on their IPs and never issues duplicate usernames, so of course "records" are kept. I wouldn't want to be their webmaster right about now. Then again, Quisling ate well, so there's that. I'm looking forward to the movie, where Gillespie plays Elia Kazan and the role of Budd Schulberg is botched by Welch in a mismatched tie and blazer.

Anonymous said...

TWO WEEKS LATER...

Mary|6.25.15 @ 9:32AM|#

Nothing else happened.

Paul said...

Speaking for myself, I'm mildly disappointed with Reason. Regardless of what I know to be facts in this particular case, it's quite obvious that when you become the target of a major investigation, your counsel very often tells you to keep your mouth shut.

I do wish, however, that Reason would have at least notified the commentariat that a subpoena existed (I've read the subpoena and it explicitly did not forbid the revelation to third parties). In that event, I would not have had any problem with them politely asking for conversation on the topic to be muted, or for them refraining from giving further details.

Regardless, this whole episode has definitely been instructive for all of us, for many different reasons.

If the government wants to chill the speach of an entire internet segment, it can do so, even if by only forcing some involved to get lawyers and be the subject of a legal probe.

As they say, you might beat the rap, but the Reason Six won't beat the ride.

Anonymous said...

Nothing else happened.
The commentariat got to play martyrs for a few days and adopted silly new handles for awhile. Several new and stupid memes were born, never to die. Reason kept cherry-picking second-hand news stories as if nothing had occurred, and the commentariat kept responding with the same comments they've used 10,000 times before. Rinse, repeat, ad infinitum. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Paul said...

Nothing else happened.
The commentariat got to play martyrs for a few days and adopted silly new handles for awhile. Several new and stupid memes were born, never to die. Reason kept cherry-picking second-hand news stories as if nothing had occurred, and the commentariat kept responding with the same comments they've used 10,000 times before. Rinse, repeat, ad infinitum. Nothing to see here. Move along.


I see it's been great business for you!

Anonymous said...

The Reason proletariat -- I mean commentariat -- can't lose on this one. No charges will be filed and they'll eventually be able to claim victory (after Gillespie finally breaks his vow of silence), celebrating "7:01 Day" like another Bastille Day.
Vive la révolution! Off with the Proggies' heads!!

Anonymous said...

"Speaking for myself, I'm mildly disappointed with Reason."

I'll wait.
If the staff is working to protect the Reason Six and shield their identities, and the silence is required in order to do so, they'll get their 'tithe' again this year, and kudos to boot.
If not, well, then...

Anonymous said...

"If the staff is working to protect the Reason Six and shield their identities..."

The subpoena was dated June 2. The mandated appearance date and time was June 9 at 10 A.M. The requested documents (personal information of the commenters in question) was due at that time, either delivered in person or electronically. Failure to deliver said documents would result in contempt of court charges, civil sanctions and criminal penalties.

Do you really think that Reason is still "working to protect the Reason Six and shield their identities" when by all indications they have knuckled under and named names? Remember when Reason was sued by the aviation attorney under similar circumstances and Reason trumpeted, on the pages of Reason.com, their defiance? No such bold defiance this time. Just silence. Don't you wonder why?

They caved.

The subpoena (pdf) http://popehat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Revised-Grand-Jury-Subpoena.pdf

Paul said...

If (at least one) poster was looking for a lawyer, it's reasonable (drink) to suggest that their identities have been given up. Again, total speculation.

Paul said...

was sued by the aviation attorney under similar circumstances and Reason trumpeted, on the pages of Reason.com, their defiance? No such bold defiance this time. Just silence. Don't you wonder why?

The aviation lawyer doesn't control a SWAT team?

Paul said...

The Reason proletariat -- I mean commentariat -- can't lose on this one. No charges will be filed and they'll eventually be able to claim victory (after Gillespie finally breaks his vow of silence), celebrating "7:01 Day" like another Bastille Day.

Why wouldn't we declare victory if no charges are filed? Doesn't that essentially prove that the entire grand jury investigation was theater with no other purpose than to intimidate?

Anonymous said...

Doesn't that essentially prove that the entire grand jury investigation was theater with no other purpose than to intimidate?

You still need proof of that? And what if charges are filed? You'll change your mind? Come on. The longer this goes on and Gillespie maintains his Helen Keller act, the more convinced I am that Reason's chatters are willing to forgive and forget, or more probably -- that they are seriously into denial in order to have a reason to keep chatting at Reason. A few thoughtful and principled commenters may leave in disgust, but most will find a way to turn Reason's cowardly ethical betrayal into even more blind, vituperative hatred of government. After all, an anarchist can't change his stripes. Or is it black turtlenecks? And where else can he go to get his hate on? Breitbart? Daily Caller? Twitchy?

Anonymous said...

White House Mum on Reason Subpoena, NAACP Leader Once Owned a Wood Chipper, Shark Doxes Libertarian in North Carolina, Nick Gillespie Still AWOL: A.M. Links

Paul said...

Hopefully Gillespie is being waterboarded with Bharara standing over him yelling, "Who are the commenters?!!"

Anonymous said...

NEEDZ MOAR WOODCHIPPER JOKEZ!!11!!!

Anonymous said...

I got a suggestion that these folks might be of some help:
http://www.rcfp.org/
Anybody know them?

Anonymous said...

REASON'S FRIENDS AND DEFENDERS CHARACTERIZE REASON'S CHAT CULTURE

"The usual mindless nastiness that contributes nothing to the conversation...just the ordinary raving of people who are full of bluster about something that pisses them off, and about which they neither can nor will conceivably do anything."
http://blog.simplejustice.us/2015/06/09/un-reason-able/

"The blowhard stupidity of its commenting peanut gallery."
http://popehat.com/2015/06/08/department-of-justice-uses-grand-jury-subpoena-to-identify-anonymous-commenters-on-a-silk-road-post-at-reason-com/

"Reason commenters often sound like drunk teenage boys trying to one-up each other."
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-06-09/reason-magazine-subpoena-stomps-on-free-speech

"Nasty and stupid vitriol that is all too common in anonymous comments on the internet."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/06/08/department-of-justice-uses-grand-jury-subpoena-to-try-to-unmask-anonymous-blog-post-commenters/

"The worst case that can be made about these commenters is that they are, for lack of a better word, assholes."
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/10/another-view-subpoenaing-reason-over-comments-is-affront-to-free-speech/

Anonymous said...

"The worst case that can be made about these commenters is that they are, for lack of a better word, assholes."

And they call people names!

Anonymous said...

"Nasty and stupid vitriol"

Say, (wait for it...)

THAT WOULD MAKE A GREAT NAME FOR A BAND

Har har har.

Anonymous said...

Here's a thought: Maybe if Reason-libertarians focused more on political philosophy and less on clownish, vindictive gossip and conspiracy theories, serious people might begin to take them more seriously. As it is, there's a reason why Reason's ostensible defenders have such a low opinion of Reason's chatters and, more broadly, libertarians in general. Not that Reason's professional staff are not guilty as well of fostering a toxic chat-climate of adolescent shit-slinging, name-calling and sad, sad schadenfreude.

Reason's chat room, these days, is a place where dignity goes to die. And they have only themselves to blame. But if the real goal is dead-end, defeatist nihilism (as it surely is with a few longtime site-squatters), then the site as a whole is well on its way toward achieving that goal.

Anonymous said...

Oh, those girly, gossipy libertarians!

Irish Says Enough Woodchippers|6.13.15 @ 7:17PM
So that Tulpa thread went to some dark places. I especially like this part where Tulpa starts blubbering about his many enemies, I call him out for sounding absurdly paranoid, and he claims that criticizing him for being insane makes me an 'asshole.'...


Francisco d'Anconia|6.13.15 @ 7:39PM
Tulpa is a victim.


Warty|6.13.15 @ 7:47PM
Tulpa is a sad sad man. I wouldn't punch him in the face if we ever met, out of pity for him. Probably.


How embarrassing. Maybe it's for the best after all that the outside world isn't focusing on Reason in their time of crisis.

Anonymous said...

Kinda funny how Reason clams up -- Hillary-like -- over Chippergate.
What are they hiding, hmmmm?

Anonymous said...

This thread has petered out, Paul. Maybe you should start posting your vanity porn, like SugarFree. You'll need a hero. I'd call him Chip. Chip Wood. His last name is a double entendre. Because he's always horny. Get it?

Paul said...

It appears to me that your feelings over this are profoundly hurt, either that, or it's your strange way of gloating?

J.R. Ireland said...

""If any evidence for your assertions beyond base conjecture, let's hear it."

While we're at it, let's hear yours.

"He may very well be getting legal advice that they should keep their mouths shut"

If any evidence for your assertions beyond base conjecture, let's hear it."

Hi, Mary.

Anonymous said...

Have the Reason-libertarians learned anything from this latest bout of bad publicity? Nope. They continue to present the worst side of their flawed political philosophy while repulsing the curious and potentially supportive general public with all the wit and refinement of drunken frat-house louts. Oddly emboldened by Reason's public confession and humiliation at having named names and meekly submitted to the hated government, the Reasonoids are doubling down with even more "mindless nastiness" and "blowhard stupidity." And they wonder why Americans refuse to take them seriously. GOOD WORK!

Anonymous said...

Reason-libertarians apparently haven't embarrassed themselves enough. Their latest face-palm moment: Taking up the Neo-Confederate cause. Reason-libertarians are running out of feet to shoot.
http://reason.com/archives/2015/06/24/virginia-makes-the-right-call-on-confede#comment

Anonymous said...

Private companies make business decisions, no government coercion involved, no bans enacted, nobody arrested or shot -- and "free markets" libertarians go insane.
http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/25/confederate-flag-purge-goes-nuts-almost#comment

Anonymous said...

Libertarian Party Official Campaign Song!
https://youtu.be/WI1A1sUW0kA

Kizone Kaprow said...

Nothing else happened.

Marshall Gill said...

Damn, Paul, it looks like you simply provided some place for that poor pathetic Mary Stack to post. Looks like half the posts are hers. She really should kill herself. It would make the world a much better place.

Anonymous said...

It is difficult to have a meaningful conversation on Reason, but it is an open forum and one shouldn't have too high an expectation when John Q. Public is invited en masse. That being said, Reason provides a service to the libertarian community that is akin to a “Salon” for progressive thinking. Many progressives have nuanced and thoughtful arguments to make, but they are diluted by the throngs of angry lay persons just wanting to inflict insult and feign logic and reason. Many Reason commenters are just the same and it does not support an environment of scholarly discourse. I’m a classical liberal and since I’ve become more well read on the subjects of the free market and classical liberalism, I’ve had more and more difficulty enjoying any Reason threads, therefore I rarely contribute any more.

Anonymous said...

Now that the Neo-Trumpalo bigots have successfully completed their takeover of Hit & Run, divested themselves of the libertarian philosophy (such as it is) and pledged allegiance to the psychopathic reality-show narcissist, will they go down with the ship as their inbred bedfellows – the belching separatists, gun worshippers, fetus fetishists and xenophobes of America's simpleton South and hayseed heartland – deliver the White House to Mrs. Clinton? And what will become of that tragic diaspora of impotent libertarian chat-squatters who fled the room in disgust and despair as their xenophobic brethren came out of the closet, vowing to Make America Racist Again by building a wall to thwart the hordes of wetbacks and bloodthirsty Mohammedans? Will those exiles create a newer, even more obscure blog with eight members and a secret Hit & Run Room? Or will they return, tails between their legs but determined to let bygones be bygones in the greater ideal of servicing their malignant, obsessive, all-consuming hatred of Obummer, Hitlery, cops, young people, old people, hipsters, actors, students, journalists, the British, the French, every Muslim everywhere, and all the rest of the seven billion humans on earth?